Wednesday 28 December 2022

Tip #2 for avoiding going down with the Woke virus.

Tip #2 for avoiding going down with the Woke virus 

Be very wary of who calls themselves a feminist by 

carefully unpacking the message they broadcast.      

One type to be warded off will make it obvious with these blatant language signals - pronouns in social media bios and referring to women as cis women.

I’m going to describe my recent interaction with fake feminist Clementine Morrigan who is a superb example of a libfem handmaiden.


There is a super simple test to discern who is a dinky di feminist and who is a virus addled pretender. A feminist is a woman who makes the rights, dignity and safety of women and girls (regardless of nationality, ethnicity or melanin) a priority in every community. Feminism is by women and for women.

 

Thus, any woman who believes a man can be a woman is not a feminist. If you do not believe Homo Sapiens are a dimorphic reproducing species of mammal, sharing genetic material through fusing of gametes (male) and ovum (female) to procreate our species….well, then you have probably not just touched grass for a long time, you probably deny it exists.

 

While I’m working in the studio throughout the day I listen to music, YouTube videos, audio books and podcasts. I forget whose was the specific podcast, but a few months back somebody was having an admiring interview with Clementine Morrigan. My Australian readers would likely be aware of prominent Aus feminist Clementine Ford but she is a different person. Morrigan is Canadian. 

I have a sort of romantic connection with Canada, having had one of its citizens fertilise my ovum with his gamete back in 1979, and as I was the uterus haver I pushed a baby (AMAB) out of my front hole 8 months later (he was premature).

I publish on Substack. Mostly I crosspost from this blog as a back up in case I’m cancelled (as I have been on Patreon, Twitter and intermittently get bans from YouTube. Shadow banned on Instagram for 9 months. A whole Pinterest board was removed with more than 500 lnks, claiming the links were to “hate speech”, etc). When I publish writings only on Substack its usually because they are more specifically about my resistance to Critical Social Justice. My Substack is free and anyone is welcome to join it if they are curious to know more. If you are mainly interested in my art then it probably won't interest you.

Pearl Red Moon on Substack, writes as Cosmic Pearl

After being impressed with her podcast interview I started following Morrigan on her Instagram then stopped after a few weeks when she used the gaslighting word cis women and I realised she was a Mens Rights Activist. Later I noticed she was on Substack so I read her latest piece and was so incensed I took out a paid subscription precisely so I could make a rebuttal to what she had wrote.

This is a link to her Substack item.

Clementine Morrigan, On Dehumanisation

This was my response

I recently stopped following you on IG but are delighted to find you write this Substack where I can sate my curiosity to investigate what I interpret as your rehash of the (old) New Age of All We Need is Love.

First test for you – I have been cancelled and blocked from following numerous social media (blocked often in advance of my first visit! there appears to be some sort of shared blacklist amongst the Woke) because I’m white (= racist, white supremacist) and a transphobe (= I say men cannot become women). Can you tolerate a white terf here?

Also, along those lines, I'd be curious if you have cancelled ppl from following your platforms and why? You didn't answer the DM query I sent asking if you believe men can be women. But I didn't take that personally as I realise a high profile influencer must get heaps and heaps of messages and there was no obligation to respond.

Reading this sure pushed buttons for me. Especially as it seems written to carefully exclude any sex based analysis of violence. Rape, it seems can happen to anybody! It set off alarm bells for me that you wrote perhaps a 1000 words about dehumanisation and violence without once referring to men/males or women/females. The reality is that violence is done by men to women and children of both sexes 91% of the time. I am deeply cynical that your call for the amorphous desexualised peeps that have been dehumanised by acts of violence to expend their energies on developing empathy for perpetrators is really a great idea.

I am glad I took the men who raped me to court. I didn’t try to kill them myself (having found out already they were stronger and knew how to use knives) but sought the legal resolution. However, I’m ashamed to acknowledge having weakly collapsed into long sessions of dehumanising them, especially as they subsequently broke into my house 4x, threatened the life of my 6 year old son, harassed and intimidated me by phoning up to 20x a day and stole and burned out my car. I am still working on having empathy for their humanity 34 years later and still live in hope that I might become a better person when I can ascend beyond the trauma instilled in me.

Your admonishments that I must stop dehumanising goes beyond just because it makes me better person but extends my responsibility to saving the world. To a gnarly old 2nd wave feminist I have heard a zillion iterations of how women must save the world by stopping being angry about violence and oppression.

Are you taking the message about stopping dehumanising to the male perpetrators too? Given the aeons long history of male violence and oppression towards females it may take a bit more than guilt tripping them about how their tendency to objectify is ruining the Social Justice project.


She deleted it.

Morrigan also disables comments on her Instagram.

A “feminist” who doesn’t listen to feedback should set off klaxons and red flashing lights. A feminist who cannot use the word woman is losing her battle with brain maggots. A feminist who thinks rape and violence is an equal problem for everybody and denies the gendered paradigm is nuts.

After a bit more research I was relieved to discover I’m not the only one who understands Morrigan has lost it. Heres a link to a Reddit thread.

Reddit/Hilaria Baldwin

Sunday 25 December 2022

My unsolicited advice for tips how not fall asleep behind the wheel in 2023

Until I started banging my head on the brick wall of Critical Social Justice stupidity, beginning with the specific brick named Emily Ito, I didn’t think my personal politics had much interest for the wider world to know about. 

There are some artists who regard their production as being all about their politics and they call themselves conceptual or performance artists. I’m not that sort of artist. I describe myself as a decorative artist because I make art for arts sake. My oeuvre is to create artefacts where I’ve used colour, pattern and texture imaginatively combined. I could also legitimately be called an abstract artist.


                                         Hand of Fatima coat, back is shown. 2020

My preferred artefacts to create are garments because I like the idea of the owner of the art to be displaying it on the outside and putting their body literally inside of the canvas. It amusingly subverts the traditional way of standing externally and away from the art object and regarding it separated in space. I am often surprised that because the art I make presents itself as a wearable object, observers think of them as limited to being just clothes and that the objects only utility is to be worn. 



                                             Hand of Fatima coat, lower left front, 2020

Why should it be thought that putting art on fabric is significantly different from putting paint on the surface of a square of canvas and claiming the only way it can then be appreciated is to be hung on a wall and get described as a “painting”? There is absolutely no reason why someone couldn’t buy one of my art garments and hang them on a wall and call it a painting. If I was a Critical Social Justice warrior, and therefore political – as in a conceptual or performance artist - I would scream my coat identifies as an abstract painting and its pronouns are “painting/contemporary art”. My art garments also have the added bonus of being able to turn it around and show a completely different surface. Two “contemporary art paintings” in one!


The rise of Critical Social Justice (CSJ) ideology and how it’s a powerful compost accelerator - essentially everything it touches turns to shit

Making, showing and selling my art has been the way I interface with the outside world and I thought my artistic production was a perfectly adequate way to manifest my presence in society. Over the last 5 years I became vaguely aware of many progressives adopting an identitarian approach to manifesting their presence in the world. 

My personal response was to find it sort of cringey and judge it signalled a desperate demand for attention that some ppl thought blathering on about their race, sexuality and which letter of LGBTQ+ they identified as was interesting and relevant. In my world view, those are aspects of personality and sexual expression that might be of interest in micro intimate social circles, but are generally of no significance to the wider community. 

However, I’ve come to realise this kind of megaphone pronouncement of “who you are” is a necessary performative aspect of being a proselytiser for CSJ. SJ warriors define their existence within polarities of power and oppression. Visualise a sliding scale going from left to right with the most powerful and least oppressed at the left pole being White Heterosexual Male and the least powerful, most oppressed at the right pole will be a black LGBTQI+ female. (though its actually Trans Black Men, but that’s another complicated issue….). The more signifiers to the left a person has the more shame and guilt they have to acknowledge because its deemed those people have, and are intentionally oppressing everybody after them to the right of the polarity…

Daft, isn’t it!? Not to mention racist, sexist and breathtakingly thick as a brick ignorant.


This my first tip for not getting caught up in CSJ stupidity – 

don’t trust the mainstream media, they have been captured and obediently kowtow to the bricklayers. 

I saw an excellent example on ABC (Australia) television a couple of days ago. On their morning show 2 women presenters were pearl clutching in horror at the British Royal Family being exposed for racism. They were referring to the Ngozi Fulani v Lady Susan Hussey incident. To my incredulity they referred to it as if it were real evidence of racism. That is BS and demonstrates how they lazily trumpet the CSJ narrative instead of doing research.

Below is a small roundup of alternative narratives that are available on YouTube. Ngozi Fulani – not her real name - was born in London as Marlene Headley and is an experienced race grifter who has been profiting quite comfortably off her scam for decades.


The Freethinker Cast:

I Don't Think that she's Racist

Ngozi Fulani WHERE did she go?

Ngozi Fulani: WHERE did the CHARITY FUNDS GO?

additionally TikTok removed her video

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/muCst-GQTKc


FHI Prince Peter:

Lady Susan Hussey - Racially Abused by Ngozi Fulani

Lady Susan Hussey and the Woke Cultural Revolution


Podcast of the Lotus Eaters:

The Royal Race Grifter, Exposed


Tomorrow my next tip will be warning about another CSJ poseur to avoid. Clementine Morrigan is an Olympic class gold medallist contender for Smarmy Hypocrite of the Decade.

Fringe Dweller Dress

Wednesday 21 December 2022

How I'm Flowing


detail of Tangled Web,
current work in progress, December 21, 2022


I have returned to writing on this blog. A couple of years ago I signed off intending to move on to developing a profile on Instagram and other social media platforms and to essentially archive the writings that began here in 2008.

I had the option of closing it down entirely and deleting everything and are now very glad I didn't choose that. I've come to understand that this is the only platform where can't be censored or cancelled by the new authoritarians:

this is the only place where I have total control and can freely express myself without the potential of being banished, silenced and cancelled

This blog has never had much of a public profile and a with just over 200 followers, considering it has been established 15 years, it hasn't been particularly "successful" in some estimations. But having a large following or being "influential" has never had relevance or been much to do with why feel I compelled to write ideas down. The reflections here comprise part of my archive of developing as a visual artist. It is the diary of how I've interacted and responded to personal circumstances and political ideas.

I am glad to return to recording ideas here and in some ways feel compelled to do so because dialectical discourse is being severely curtailed in many of the places where it is supposed to flourish, like within the SDA. In the international internet sewing community. I think apart from entertaining myself and writing as an act to clarify my thoughts, I might even have some interesting views to share. It can be done here without the reactionary Social Justice warriors shutting me down.


in my garden, "FLOW" carved into a sandstone block

Starting today, I'm going to write a little series reflecting on how I think the digital age is adversely affecting creative minds and how I believe there is an inherent incompatibility to successfully integrate technology into artistic ontology...or at least, how attempts to graft the frankensteinian organs are disrupting and significantly harming how creative minds work 

(hint...look this up: Flow)

There is absolutely an incompatibility in being an advocate of Critical Social Justice and being a free thinking critical practitioner of visual art. Any ideology that starts placing limits on what can be said and made is a dangerous, creativity stunting dogma.


                                                 passionfruit flowers growing on deck


FLOW, part one

I'm immensely curious how social media is affecting humans in modernity. I think as a 63 years old woman artist there are some insights, opinions and experiences I have which are unique and going to be valuable in the future. 

I've lived in the crossover eras of three enormously significant social changes putting me in a small group with contemporaries that have knowledge and experience of what our little bit of the world was like before, during and after those changes. By 2040 women like us will be gone so I feel its important to make a record of how I've experienced these changes.

 The social changes I refer to are:

 #1/ the rise and success of 2nd wave feminism, meaning I grew up not expecting to live my life in marriage/family/domesticity but that I would have a job and monetary income that was my own, 

#2/ women were not taken seriously as artists, even more so in non traditional media that wasn't paint, and it was exceedingly rare to be recognised or be a professional woman artist. 

#3/ the world before screens.(what to call this world? I intend to refer to it as "Pre-Tube", meaning before the invention and desemination of the cathode ray screen (television)). By the middle of this century there won't be a human being who hasn't stared at a glass screen that has text and coloured pictures on it. Just as the printing press was a momentous technology that changed how humans lived and stored knowledge the advent of the computer age will impact the direction human of civilisation into the forseeable future. What a strange creature I must seem to young people that I was 10 when I saw my first televison. My parents owned one in July 1969 because my Mum got my sister and I out of bed around 11pm to watch men walking on the surface of the Moon.

From 1969 until the late 1990s looking at screens with text and pictures didn't take up much time in my life. It was still only television, the box on legs that cost a lot of money and sat in the lounge room with all the chairs faced toward it. Then the dream of an American boy called Bill Gates that everybody should have a PC started getting actualised everywhere. I bought my teen son an Atari and a Commodore 64 because he would be left behind in the future if he didn't know how to use the technology.




Saturday 17 December 2022

"Values" and "Codes of Conduct" as cudgels to knock ya teeth out.

 I wrote twice to the Surface Design Association seeking to find out why I had been removed from the Holding Space Zoom seminar, Dec 3rd and 7th. They did not respond so on the 8th of December I decided to become a member and paid US$75 for a years membership. After receiving confirmation of membership I was unable to actually activate my account for the next few days through some sort of technical problem that I had to email them about several times, asking for help. On December 13th I included the Executive Director of the SDA, Karena Bennett, in my email explaining I couldn’t activate my account and a few hours later I was sent a special login link that allowed me to do so. In the next few days I put some images of my art onto my profile page and provided promotional information for my upcoming exhibition “Garb Age”, April 1st – 23rd, 2023. I still hadn’t gotten any response to the emails I’d sent seeking to find out why I couldn’t participate in the Holding Space seminar.




On Dec 15 I posted a couple of messages on the SDA Facebook page, asking when the transcript for the Zoom meeting would be released. The messages were published about an hour apart and both disappeared within a few minutes.

On Dec 16th I sent this email to the SDA, cc-ed to Karena Bennett, Ilana Short the Membership Manager and to the Equity, Access and Integration Committee.


Hi, I’m wondering if theres a process to make a complaint how I’ve been denied equity, access and inclusion within SDA?

I’ve sent at least 3 queries by email, since December 3rd to find out why I was I intentionally removed from participating in the international Zoom seminar “Holding Space: Unraveling Appropriation in Fiber Art”, but none of my messages seeking clarification over that issue have been acknowledged.

Two comments on the SDA Facebook page were removed in the last 24 hours when I asked if the transcript to the seminar is available yet. I believe I may have been treated in this disrespectful way due to my racial identity. Can you advise what recourse there is to follow up in finding out why my dismissal in this way has been acceptable? Should I be prepared to be treated like this ongoing by the SDA into the future?

As an aside, I value to be involved in the international discourse about appropriation in art. I am a textile artist who had 14 images of my artworks appropriated and crude reproductions, in the tens of thousands, were mass manufactured for the profit of a China based business. It occurred over 2 years and I was powerless to stop it but I learned a great deal about how to cope as an individual with being exploited, unheard and literally robbed.

regards


In less than 24 hours I received this reply from Karena Bennett



To which I immediately replied


Hi Karena

Thank you for your very prompt response. 

I've attached a screenshot of the advice I was given by Ilana Short regarding a recording of the seminar becoming publicly available. 

As SDA "values" are clearly applied only to select members that meet your fanciful criteria of being sufficiently oppressed I cannot say I'm particularly disturbed to be given the bums rush. When I was speculating joining your organisation and asked around amongst textile artists I know in Australia/New Zealand/USA they uniformly curled the lip in disdain and suggested the organisation has lost its previous prestige. One person prominent in Australian textile art (I won't name) didn't even realise she is still listed as a member. Regrettably for SDA it seems the era of virtue signalling equity, access and inclusion has attracted a lower quality of artisan. Feelings of being oppressed and aggrieved do not always align with talent and vision.

Go woke, go broke. If you take seriously the extremist babblings of Social Justice warriors like Emily Ito the SDA will likely continue losing members and its inexorable slide into obscurity. She is not even an artist, just an angry woman with identity problems. If discourse is censored the art will become visual dead dogma.

Thanks for the refund




Consequently, 2 weeks after Holding Space:Unraveling Appropriation in Fiber Art, I still don't know what claims Emily Ito is making about cultural appropriation. Its bizarre that people are actively preventing me from finding out! Its my strongly help opinion that any activist whose argument cannot be publicly critiqued by the community they are talking about then their argument is likely weak and flawed. I have been writing for years why I think Emily Ito does not have a credible opinion on what is genuinely cultural appropriation. I think her fatuous argument is damaging the textile art community, both the hobbyists and professional artists. 

Ito is a Critical Social Justice activist, not an artist. Any arts organisations (ie SDA) - who offer their resources to platform social justice ideologues for expounding political opinions about how visual artists should be allowed to express themselves; who are demanding to set parameters on what should be regarded as acceptable or unacceptable expression for artists - any such arts organisation has seriously confused the priority of their mission. Their mission is empower artists to free and provocative expression. Healthy societies benefit from visual artists challenging mainstream ways of seeing things. That the SDA has allowed itself to be captured by Critical Social Justice and its regressive agenda will lead to it endorsing and teaching its young inductees that there must be limits on what artists are allowed to do, say and produce.

Woke ideology (Critical Social Justice) turns everything it touches to shit. Its modus operandi is to divide every group of people into the haves (privileged) and the have nots (oppressed). Then they encourage the polarised to club each other senseless in the name of diversity, inclusion and equity (DIE).





Adult Human Female

This is a link to the documentary "Adult Human Female"

Its the film Trans Gender Ideologues don't want anybody to see. 

You may need to watch it secretly in case somebody who really, truly believes men can become women tells you you are a bigot and transphobe and tries to get you sacked from your job for wrongthink. 


ADULT HUMAN FEMALE


Friday 9 December 2022

Coming to your town soon

I had to read this a few paragraphs at a time because something would start shaking deep inside of me and I'd be crying so hard I couldn't read the text.

I was so wrong when I thought 2nd Wave Feminism had left Womens Rights well set up for the 21stC. Critical Social Justice Theory and its bastard enforcer, Trans Gender Ideology has been unleashed to remind women we are not free of male oppression.

This is another piece of the backlash.


https://open.substack.com/pub/mandystadtmiller/p/rabbitholed-78-dana-rivers-is-the?r=jgqvg&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

Sunday 4 December 2022

 


I just made another Woke Victim

Years ago, specifically on May 23, 2019, I responded to an item that was going around the internet sewist world about cultural appropriation. I wrote many blog posts reacting to it throughout 2019-20 and all the posts are still here on my blog. The writer I reacted to was Emily Ito, an American woman who lives in San Francisco whose mother is Japanese. Emilys mother married an American man and emigrated to live in the United States with her husband in the mid 60s, where Emily was born.

My first blog post in response was May 23, then they go on for months after that. I spent hours and days researching and carefully laying out my argument why I disagreed with Itos proposition that a white person describing a garment they had made as a "kimono" was not an example of cultural appropriation.

My opinions outraged many people who didn't agree with my view that calling a garment made by a non Japanese person a kimono was not cultural appropriation. Many readers responded that that was an opinion that could only be held by a white person who was a racist.

I hoped that I could get a response and have a discussion from any one of the 3 anti-racist activists I quoted numerous times in the series of blogs I wrote, the people being Emily Ito, Aja Barber and Makiko Hastings. I was naïve enough at that time to believe that at least one of them would inevitably enter into a discussion….However, as at 3/12/2022 the only response I’ve ever had is to be blocked from all their social media.

I tried several times to get some engagement by seeking out the social media platforms where the 3 women published because I’ve been a textile artist for many decades and as a person in that community who is directly affected by arguments about culture and appropriation it was important to me to know the prevailing zeitgeist.

I became so frustrated by the wall of silence over the next few months that eventually I intentionally named one of my PDF sewing patterns the “Sencha Kimono”, hoping that would get some interaction going. (Sencha being the Japanese word for a tea ceremony and a play on the English word “Censor”). Meantime around 5 or 6 other independent pattern publishers on the internet were publicly shamed into removing the descriptor “kimono” from patterns they had published prior to Itos polemic.

My name and base reputation as a vile and racist whitey must have been passed around the internet sewing world because I was subsequently blocked from more than 40 Instagram groups I’d belonged to and had the curious experience of sometimes trying to find an IG page through a link, and finding I was blocked in advance. My micro Etsy enterprise where I sell my sewing patterns was affected, sales dropping about 30% over a year and one woman asked for a refund when she realized she had given her $18 to a racist monster. 

My Etsy Shop

In 2021 I was also blocked from Atsushi Futatsuyas IG, “Sashiko Stories” for objecting to being told I was privileged because I’m a white woman. Atsushi is a good friend of Ito and it was apparent from the stuff he was writing about cultural appropriation and theories of white supremacy that Ito had a strong influence on his world view. Atsushi has also muted my comments from being seen on his YouTube channel. He hosts a weekly chat while stitching on YT that I regularly join but the other women who follow it every week are unaware of my presence as my comments are invisible on the livechat. Six months ago I asked Atsushi to unmute me but he refused to do so.

I was only ever briefly on Itos IG – Little_Kotos_Words, in 2019, literally for one minute and one message before she blocked me (cannot provide a link obviously). I was blocked from Aja Barbers IG and in 2020 she even demanded I leave her Patreon following, despite being a paying subscriber and only ever having made one public post there (entirely milquetoast and nothing in the least bit offensive), in which she recognized my name.

Ito and Barber describe themselves as Critical Social Justice activists. Barber published a book about the wastefulness of the fashion industry in 2021 that I read and liked very much. Both are regularly featured in podcasts and publications. In 2019 I discovered Barber on Twitter and wrote her a half joking message about getting into her echo chamber and she not only immediately blocked me but wrote a defamatory and inflammatory response to her followers (250,000) that I was stalking her, threatening her safety and that she was terrified (incidentally she was well aware I live in Australia and she lives in the UK). This bought a rather ugly pile-on to my IG page (550 followers) to such a distressing degree that I closed my account and stayed off Instagram for a month. In 2020 Barber also published a half hour video on her IG, never mentioning my name, but referring to a racist woman who was stalking and bullying her and making numerous sneering and disparaging comments about the hateful personality of the person. It disappeared a few months later.

So that is a bit of history about my interactions with Ito and Barber. 

I have no interest in them as individuals. They appeared in my international sewist community about 4 years ago talking political theories about race, appropriation and oppression, and lots of other ideas straight out of Critical Social Justice Theory. I just want to engage with their influential political ideas on a public platform to discuss and interact. However both seem to act as if I am personally attacking them and neither are reluctant to imply that in public.


How I made Ito look like a victim today and how the Woke will play along.

There is a textile art organization based in the USA called the Surface Design Association I haven’t been following their IG but until about 6 years ago I did subscribe to their magazine. Their IG has 20,600 followers on social media  and I noticed that more than 70 of the people who follow me also sub to the SDA.

About 5 days ago I saw promoted on my IG feed that the SDA were having an open Zoom seminar called Holding Space: Unraveling Appropriation in Fiber Art and that there were 3 contributing people on the panel and that one of them was Emily Ito. I’m always curious what she has to say about textile art and appropriation so I joined up. 

The meeting was scheduled to launch at 11am on 3/12/2022 and I duly signed in. The moderator was waiting for all the attendees to log in when I dropped out. A message came up that I had been removed. At first this seemed perplexing and I thought some sort of tech glitch might have occurred so I tried to log back in a couple of times to no avail. Then it occurred to me it may have been intentional so I switched email addresses and logged back in with success, much to my amazement. However that only lasted a minute before I got ousted again.

It was apparent I had been ejected from the Zoom conference without explanation. The Zoom notification message that I had been "removed" was correct.

I find this really remarkable. I have an opinion, a point of view that I feel I’m entitled to express within an international craft community I’ve been a part of for decades. 

Ito isn’t a textile artist, she talks about learning to sew her own clothes beginning perhaps 2 years ago. She is an activist, a person who puts her politics out into the world and tries to influence people. But she won’t debate, she won’t discuss and she doesn’t interact. 

I’m not sure why SDA kicked me out, whether it was at her behest, or perhaps the horribleness of a point of view I have has even seeped into their ears. But it seems crazy to me. I joined the conference out of good faith curiosity to hear what activists and other artists are saying about cultural appropriation in textile art. Dog knows, I've heard it often enough that I need to “educate” myself. The Woke have often commented they resent doing my emotional labour for me so I was expending my own time to find out what they feel I don’t understand. How bizarre that they don’t want to let me hear what I should know. In truth, I didn’t intend to ask anything or make any comment at all, I was there to listen to what their current views and claims are. 

The upshot is it will all have to remain a mystery so I’ll just go on believing what I already believe until I hear a more convincing case argued.

Ito, I presume will be “terrified” in a similar manner to what Barber claimed and perhaps feeling she has been stalked and harmed. 

I just stay cancelled along with having another crime to add to my pantheon.


Postscript: If anybody attended the SDA conference and a transcript or video recording is available I'd be glad to find out what was discussed.

Friday 19 August 2022